Figured I would ask to see what others would say on this. I would like to add more power to my C6. I was told that superchargers can blow up motors or shortens life of motor. After watching a video in the other tread I was wondering if anyone new the pros and cons to having a supercharged engine vs NA? Cost comparisons? Thanks for your help!

I was told a supercharger needs to spool up for to reach power band and I think a NA motor is no lag. Could be wrong though??

See my post this evening on same subject in C6 section. To add, in response to your question, superchargers produce boost as the engine generates more rpms. Unlike turbochargers, which produce boost by spinning an impeller of the exhaust gases, superchargers are mecnancially driven by belts, usually off the crank pulley. There are three types: Roots or twin screw types (magnachargers and kenne-bells respectively) generate power almost immediately at 2,500 rpm. They require the user to install a high rise hood on the car. Centrifugal superchargers don't require a special hood (Vortec, Procharger, Paxton/Novi) generate boost at higher rpms(3,500-3,800) and have much less low end torque. Centrifugal blowers can be combined with forged engines to create big HP. For example, Magnachargers typically top out at 500 hp. My centrif blower puts out 740 hp at the wheels. Note: turbo chargers generate boost quickly at around 3,000 rpm.

See my post this evening on same subject in C6 section. To add, in response to your question, superchargers produce boost as the engine generates more rpms. Unlike turbochargers, which produce boost by spinning an impeller of the exhaust gases, superchargers are mecnancially driven by belts, usually off the crank pulley. There are three types: Roots or twin screw types (magnachargers and kenne-bells respectively) generate power almost immediately at 2,500 rpm. They require the user to install a high rise hood on the car. Centrifugal superchargers don't require a special hood (Vortec, Procharger, Paxton/Novi) generate boost at higher rpms(3,500-3,800) and have much less low end torque. Centrifugal blowers can be combined with forged engines to create big HP. For example, Magnachargers typically top out at 500 hp. My centrif blower puts out 740 hp at the wheels. Note: turbo chargers generate boost quickly at around 3,000 rpm.

Great post Tom! With the centrifugal superchargers is there anything that you can do to recapture the lost/less low end torque?

ECS uses and I believe sells a restrictor plate option. It allows the use of a smaller SC pulley to generate boost faster (lower rpms) and then cuts off the boost when it hits a certain level (usually 8-9 lbs). Call Chris or Doug to discuss (see link-good source for parts and install if you live near). For a certif SC set up I think the Novi package ECS sells is the best. I have a Procharger D1SC which is also good, but still prefer the Novi.

Another option is Kenne Bell blower (twin screw type). They generate the most low end torque and will generally outperform a Roots type blower (Magnacharger) and can work with forged engines, should you go that route some day for huge HP numbers (whereas the Maggie is limited at about 500 rwhp). Negatives are the high rise hood and the weight (unit weighs about 150 lbs).

Discuss turbo option with Chris and Doug as well. Those generate good low end torque. If I was doing a new street car (vs. road race) I might go that route.

http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/
http://www.kennebell.net/

superchargers are belt driven & take up to 15 hp to operate, turbos are exhaust driven hence torbo lag hope this will help. gerry rogers QUOTE=goldfinger;1908]I was told a supercharger needs to spool up for to reach power band and I think a NA motor is no lag. Could be wrong though??[/QUOTE]

Good points, to further elaborate: Turbos have a lag till the power comes on. Usually once you step on the gas and the rpms get around 2,800, there is sufficient exhaust to generate boost. The lag, which occurs between the time you hit the gas and the time the exhaust spins the impeller, depends on the set up and is less of an issue with current model cars, than older versions. Generally turbos are great on the street or the drag strip. They can be a bit of a handful on a RR course if your not an experienced track driver. I.e if the power comes on a little later and more abrubtly than you planned, you can loose the rear coming out of a turn. Most road race guys like conventionally aspirated engines.

Superchargers aren't all the same. The most common type (centrifugals) build boost as the engine spins the sc pulley. The boost build exponentially. That means at 2,500 rpm, there isn't much. At 3,500 it comes on moderately and from 4,000-6,000 you get the full benefit. There's no lag, however the amount of power comes on steadily as the engine spins faster.

Well my input is that I wanted to go with N/A and so I did!! I currently have a forged 402 being built by the guys at LME out of TX. All the specs of the cam, heads, custom wiseco pistons are all done by Tony Mamo of AFR. It should be done in about a month or so and according to tony we will see some fire breathing numbers!! For me it was the sound that a N/A car makes with a nice cam!!! Once I took a ride in Tony Mamo's 540rwhp 383 stroker Vette I was sold!

IMO you just need to do a little research and try and take a ride in both styles. This way you can get an idea as to how each of them act and react. Then from here, see how much$ you want to spend and make your decision!! Good luck either way!

Interesting discussion. I am currently building a NA engine for a track only car (RR). I am shooting to have it turn out about 650 hp at the engine. The engine doesn't need to pass DOT so I will be able to run a different exhaust system.

NA is a great way to go on the street also. I agree with the comment above that it's serious option that should be considered.

My NA racing engine will have a Warhawk 454 block with forged internals and a dry sump. It's built to stay cool under severe heat load on the track for extended periods. I will keep you posted with some pics as the project comes together. I will be installing a Ron David radiator and some interesting shrouding and vent management to get maximum air into the intake and to flow thru the radiator. The car is also getting a new carbon body kit which provides improved air flow through the front and a "world challenge" louvered hood to get hot air removed from the engine compartment.

I haven't decided on whether to boost the compression and run 116 octane racing fuel. That would get the hp to 750-800. Given the car will be stripped down to about 2,600 lbs, not sure if I need that type of power.

Finally, I am likely going to remove the stock wiring harness and oem computer and install a race/engine management system such as Motec to run the engine better and keep better data records of lap times and optimize lines on the course.

Interesting discussion. I am currently building a NA engine for a track only car (RR). I am shooting to have it turn out about 650 hp at the engine. The engine doesn't need to pass DOT so I will be able to run a different exhaust system.

NA is a great way to go on the street also. I agree with the comment above that it's serious option that should be considered.

My NA racing engine will have a Warhawk 454 block with forged internals and a dry sump. It's built to stay cool under severe heat load on the track for extended periods. I will keep you posted with some pics as the project comes together. I will be installing a Ron David radiator and some interesting shrouding and vent management to get maximum air into the intake and to flow thru the radiator. The car is also getting a new carbon body kit which provides improved air flow through the front and a "world challenge" louvered hood to get hot air removed from the engine compartment.

I haven't decided on whether to boost the compression and run 116 octane racing fuel. That would get the hp to 750-800. Given the car will be stripped down to about 2,600 lbs, not sure if I need that type of power.

Finally, I am likely going to remove the stock wiring harness and oem computer and install a race/engine management system such as Motec to run the engine better and keep better data records of lap times and optimize lines on the course.
Geez!! I would love to see that when it's done!!:eek:

Another thing to consider is how much weight the overall package adds to the car . Callaways C16 vette uses a supercharger set up that produces over 600HP, but adds enough weight to hurt the lb./ HP number (sometimes over 200 pounds). Many companies now (Imparticular Lamborghini) have outright stated that the future of their performance cars lie in the power to weight ratio, rather than raw power (such as their new Superleggera model), a trait which the 06'-07' ZO6 model has proven works well. Often times, with a NA engine, you can actually "decrease" overall weight as you "add" horsepower, whereas SC and TC undoubtedly add weight in the same equation, thus potentially making the car closer to a street rod, and further from a road holder. Like anything, it is all about what you like.

Another thing to consider is how much weight the overall package adds to the car . Callaways C16 vette uses a supercharger set up that produces over 600HP, but adds enough weight to hurt the lb./ HP number (sometimes over 200 pounds). Many companies now (Imparticular Lamborghini) have outright stated that the future of their performance cars lie in the power to weight ratio, rather than raw power (such as their new Superleggera model), a trait which the 06'-07' ZO6 model has proven works well. Often times, with a NA engine, you can actually "decrease" overall weight as you "add" horsepower, whereas SC and TC undoubtedly add weight in the same equation, thus potentially making the car closer to a street rod, and further from a road holder. Like anything, it is all about what you like.

Very good point. The Kenne Bell as you mentioned adds approx 150 lbs to the car. The SC or TTs tend to produce big HP gains(40%+), which makes the weight appear a minor issue when going in a straight line, but as you correctly point out, placing 150-200 lbs in front, above the engine(as maggie or Kenne Bell) doesn't do any favors to the handling of the car. Not a winner on the track(rr).

Very good point. The Kenne Bell as you mentioned adds approx 150 lbs to the car. The SC or TTs tend to produce big HP gains(40%+), which makes the weight appear a minor issue when going in a straight line, but as you correctly point out, placing 150-200 lbs in front, above the engine(as maggie or Kenne Bell) doesn't do any favors to the handling of the car. Not a winner on the track(rr).
Very good info right there gentleman. I think alot of people would do better if they knew this. They just get caught up in the "how much HP will I get" and they never think about the weight.

If I had the spare $$ I would spring on a supercharger myself, just because I like how they sound and not to mention it sounds cool when talking about what you have under the hood! :cool:

This is one question that I always seem to find myself answering on the phone at least a few times a week. There no better or worse choice, it depends on really how the car will be used. For road race cars I would stay N/A because of the smoother power delivery and less heat. Show guys would benifit from a supercharger for the underhood asthetics. Drag racing can be a toss up depending on the type of class you are interested in. There is reallty no best package, just more of the best package that fits the customers needs.

If anyone is leaning towards SC, check out Chris's video he posted of the SC'd C5 getting in the 9's! That will settle your thoughts!:cheers:

If anyone is leaning towards SC, check out Chris's video he posted of the SC'd C5 getting in the 9's! That will settle your thoughts!:cheers:

Thanks Greg, The best part about that car is it still drives like stock. N/A cars are definatly a lot more aggressive to drive but fun never the less. :)

Superchargers are turning under the power of the motor, it is turning at the same rate which your motor is turning. So it does not spool up.
The Turbo Chargers need to spool up because they are working off of exauhst back pressure. Like on Diesel Trucks which have alot of back pressure because they have no spark plugs, just glow plugs and high compression.

I would think a roots type blade being the same style as if you rolled your fingers between each other, noticed that air gap at your finger V's, it would seem the roots pack more air and if you have something like detonation and that is adding more air than you are sort of past the stoic cool window.
Figure it's not the spin of the engine. The engine can spin up to the peak rpm if you just rev'd it in neutral, would that not spin up quick on it's own N/A?
The turbo blades are like fans in your computer tower. That is more a wave you can pack or let it backwash back through the blade openings. You with the roots have very little backwash is it will not backwash into the roots blades being so tight to begin with.
Something is going to give. Either the studs expand and pop out of the block, or the head gasket moves and that pops first.

I'll take a Root Beer and taste my chances with a float of the gasket or stud pulling me packing air a certain way.

Turbo- and supercharging adds weight,underhood bulk,complexity,and a greatly increased chance of engine destruction. My Subaru STi is turbocharged because that is the only way to get serious power from 150 CID. But a normally aspirated LSX will make more power than your rear tires can handle. 500 hp--600 hp--700 hp--I have seen these numbers dyno-proven in many magazines over the last five years. Add decent gearing like 3.73,3.90,or 4.10 and you have reliable supercar-plus performance for a fraction of the money--and you can maintain it yourself.

Well my input is that I wanted to go with N/A and so I did!! I currently have a forged 402 being built by the guys at LME out of TX. All the specs of the cam, heads, custom wiseco pistons are all done by Tony Mamo of AFR. It should be done in about a month or so and according to tony we will see some fire breathing numbers!! For me it was the sound that a N/A car makes with a nice cam!!! Once I took a ride in Tony Mamo's 540rwhp 383 stroker Vette I was sold!

I think we just found the winner to your next contest. THE PERSON WHO CAN EXPLAIN TECHNICAL QUESTIONS PRECISELY AND TO THE POINT. I would have to say that Tom is a great asset to this forum.
He always gives great answers and knows his s*@t|!!!!

I've raced a turbo (bike) at Riverside. The engine is unpredictable. Yes, it will spool up once the fan blade can build that speed from the exhaust rushing out.
Pro is you receive fast engine speed and you move like a dart with the forced air pushing down on the piston once the intake opens.

Do you need to rejet/reprogram the fuel metering with the spinners? No you do not. You just created a faster time for the same speed it would need the same fuel to spin it a touch slower is ask the pros what they know about that fuel to lean is mean deal.

I am for the turbo is dual it up. That is one turbo for 4-cylinder banks. Now we are gaining in weight. Now we are way over pocket rich boy can't ride it/race it/it's all smack your face and wake up!

OK, so you and I meet on the street. I think I have a set of exhausts and ported heads with roller rockers and all that is cam'd is in the premium fuel cut of a touch to the 11 to 1, to say some cut around 12:3 to 1 A/Fratio?

I have way less weight. Way less room to add belts, scoops, plumbing, saws-all set in place turbo place it ear and listen to my bottom end go south in about another foot romp on the throttle plate.

Yes, you would have to build up some bottom end is much more stout than say stock rods and 12:1 piston ratios. More like step the compression down to pack in more air spin it up that way.

Cheap seats? Yep, I'd bolt on a turbo and light foot it. Pull the engine and match all that is instant HP on the linear demand is torque from the ground up is a full N/A engine. With the turbo... It's torque-wait a minute-OK, here is the torrrrrrrrrrrrrWOT! WTF?

Either way: You are going to make heat to make HP. You are going to sit in a hotter car is you on the HP gain. And global warming is a joke. But don't you love the heat wave for the rest of your life maybe getting cooler is a scoop in the headliner?

I have a glowing turbo in my..... :thud:

I've raced a turbo (bike) at Riverside. The engine is unpredictable. Yes, it will spool up once the fan blade can build that speed from the exhaust rushing out.
Pro is you receive fast engine speed and you move like a dart with the forced air pushing down on the piston once the intake opens.

Do you need to rejet/reprogram the fuel metering with the spinners? No you do not. You just created a faster time for the same speed it would need the same fuel to spin it a touch slower is ask the pros what they know about that fuel to lean is mean deal.

I am for the turbo is dual it up. That is one turbo for 4-cylinder banks. Now we are gaining in weight. Now we are way over pocket rich boy can't ride it/race it/it's all smack your face and wake up!

OK, so you and I meet on the street. I think I have a set of exhausts and ported heads with roller rockers and all that is cam'd is in the premium fuel cut of a touch to the 11 to 1, to say some cut around 12:3 to 1 A/Fratio?

I have way less weight. Way less room to add belts, scoops, plumbing, saws-all set in place turbo place it ear and listen to my bottom end go south in about another foot romp on the throttle plate.

Yes, you would have to build up some bottom end is much more stout than say stock rods and 12:1 piston ratios. More like step the compression down to pack in more air spin it up that way.

Cheap seats? Yep, I'd bolt on a turbo and light foot it. Pull the engine and match all that is instant HP on the linear demand is torque from the ground up is a full N/A engine. With the turbo... It's torque-wait a minute-OK, here is the torrrrrrrrrrrrrWOT! WTF?

Either way: You are going to make heat to make HP. You are going to sit in a hotter car is you on the HP gain. And global warming is a joke. But don't you love the heat wave for the rest of your life maybe getting cooler is a scoop in the headliner?

I have a glowing turbo in my..... :thud:


:willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:

How about nitrous?

Superchargers are turning under the power of the motor, it is turning at the same rate which your motor is turning. So it does not spool up.
The Turbo Chargers need to spool up because they are working off of exauhst back pressure. Like on Diesel Trucks which have alot of back pressure because they have no spark plugs, just glow plugs and high compression.
no on the Supercharger answer. they are stepped by internal gears so they are spinning at least 3-5 times faster than the motor.

Great post Tom! With the centrifugal superchargers is there anything that you can do to recapture the lost/less low end torque?To have a base engine big enough - like 500+ cid:patriot: