I'm looking for a fresh base of wax on the car, I know Dawn will work for this but I was wondering with this also harm the finish on the car?

Best to use a 50% water / 50% Isopropyl Alcohol solution.

Dawn is a high alkaline soap, so it should remove most non-detergant waxes and sealants. It may not remove some silicones and detergant resistant waxes.

The best bet would be to wipe the paint with a 50/50 mix like Gary suggested. Polishing or claying the paint will also remove most waxes and sealants fairly quickly.:beerbang:

Washing-up Liquids (Detergent)

Dish washing liquids chemistry relies primarily on detergent and surfactant technology. This type of chemistry has advanced to the point that it can be engineered to specific soils (i.e. organic grease) Detergent and soap chemistry and product formulation is a lot more complicated than this, suffice it to say; modern car wash formulations are automotive soil specific.

I would not recommend using a harsh dishwashing detergent such as Dawn® on a regular basis, as they contain a degreaser, although most of them are approx pH 8.0 the other ingredients will tend to emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils found in rubber moulding, trim and the paint system, which causes the plasticizers to dry out and oxidize, causing them to lose their flexibility.

The MSDS indicates that this product contains sodium hydroxide, which is highly alkaline the same ingredient used in engine degreasers to chemically ‘burn’ hydrocarbon oils and grease from engine surfaces (sodium hydroxide) it will severely stain aluminium, magnesium, etc. It will emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils naturally found in your paint, and also any oils you have applied in the way of a polish or glaze.

Generally you should avoid the use of household cleaning products for automotive detailing as they are formulated for an entirely different type of cleaning. [Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car] [Proctor and Gamble]



An extract from one of a series of in-depth, unbiased detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2009, all rights reserved.

:goodpost: :goodpost:

Do not use dawn!!! Like Togwt's post says...not recommended. We have done extensive testing of our own, and in our findings it actually speeds up the oxidation process.

Swords way of doing it is just fine!

Do not use dawn!!! Like Togwt's post says...not recommended. We have done extensive testing of our own, and in our findings it actually speeds up the oxidation process.

Swords way of doing it is just fine!

Could you please post the results and variables of your test. IE how you tested, how you verified the increase in oxidation on catalyzed clear coat, what your test was measured against, etc. Sounds like good stuff that I'm sure many would love reading...

Best to use a 50% water / 50% Isopropyl Alcohol solution.
Never heard this one before :thumbsup:

Dawn is a high alkaline soap, so it should remove most non-detergant waxes and sealants. It may not remove some silicones and detergant resistant waxes.

The best bet would be to wipe the paint with a 50/50 mix like Gary suggested. Polishing or claying the paint will also remove most waxes and sealants fairly quickly.:beerbang:

You been on vacation Todd? Nice to see your post back. Bummer with what happened to all the post on here, the detail area is one of my favorite spot to scan over for tips and tricks. So nice to see your post back up here! :beerbang:

Washing-up Liquids (Detergent)

Dish washing liquids chemistry relies primarily on detergent and surfactant technology. This type of chemistry has advanced to the point that it can be engineered to specific soils (i.e. organic grease) Detergent and soap chemistry and product formulation is a lot more complicated than this, suffice it to say; modern car wash formulations are automotive soil specific.

I would not recommend using a harsh dishwashing detergent such as Dawn® on a regular basis, as they contain a degreaser, although most of them are approx pH 8.0 the other ingredients will tend to emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils found in rubber moulding, trim and the paint system, which causes the plasticizers to dry out and oxidize, causing them to lose their flexibility.

The MSDS indicates that this product contains sodium hydroxide, which is highly alkaline the same ingredient used in engine degreasers to chemically ‘burn’ hydrocarbon oils and grease from engine surfaces (sodium hydroxide) it will severely stain aluminium, magnesium, etc. It will emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils naturally found in your paint, and also any oils you have applied in the way of a polish or glaze.

Generally you should avoid the use of household cleaning products for automotive detailing as they are formulated for an entirely different type of cleaning. [Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car] [Proctor and Gamble]

Always interesting and detailed post yourself


Do not use dawn!!! Like Togwt's post says...not recommended. We have done extensive testing of our own, and in our findings it actually speeds up the oxidation process.

Swords way of doing it is just fine!

Good to someone is doing this stuff, personally that would put me to sleep! Thanks Detail Dude!

Could you please post the results and variables of your test. IE how you tested, how you verified the increase in oxidation on catalyzed clear coat, what your test was measured against, etc. Sounds like good stuff that I'm sure many would love reading...


Tommy Boy quote - "You could stick your head up a bulls as$, but I'd rather take the butchers word for it." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I don't let Dawn get any where near my cars, to bad for finish of cars.

:rofl: :rofl: Nice quote!

You're right Doc Holiday, it will put you to sleep. You would be amazed of the extensive testing we, and other companies, do. Some relevant... others not so much. Either way, that is why we have the people we have in our stable.

TOGWT's post is right on the money! If you read the properties of what goes into soaps like that, it is easy to imagine what that can do to the surface. Professional detailers will most likely say the same thing. If not, they just haven't experienced it yet.

The test was conducted using 1oz. of dish soap to 1 gallon of water at every wash. The vehicle was washed weekly and waxed 3 times in a 9 month time frame. All measurements we used were controlled within 9% of each wash. Now, it wasn't the eventual haze appearance that got our attention after the first 7 months. It was the fact that the wax would hardly bond to the surface. I know some of you measure the "durability" by the way the water beads form, but at that point...that was the least of my worries. What stood out the most was the very next wash, there was virtually no wax on the surface. Almost as if someone used an IPA wipe to remove the wax. The final observation from the lab? The extent of the oxidation time was measured at the surface of the clearcoat and the base of the basecoat. The results were determined by the abrasion of the clearcoat and the adhesion between the basecoat and the clearcoat. This indicates that as the abrasion of the clearcoat decreases, with the exposure times we allowed, and it increased possibilities of cracking in the clearcoat itself. On the other hand, the higher the adhesion loss between the the two coats through exposure times, the more increased possibilities for the clearcoat to peel off. The harsh reality to us, confirms that the surface layer and the base material have substantially different properties at the end of the test. So, I think it is fair to say that using harsh soaps, not intended for automotive use, speeds up the oxidation process.

Washing-up Liquids (Detergent)

Dish washing liquids chemistry relies primarily on detergent and surfactant technology. This type of chemistry has advanced to the point that it can be engineered to specific soils (i.e. organic grease) Detergent and soap chemistry and product formulation is a lot more complicated than this, suffice it to say; modern car wash formulations are automotive soil specific.

I would not recommend using a harsh dishwashing detergent such as Dawn® on a regular basis, as they contain a degreaser, although most of them are approx pH 8.0 the other ingredients will tend to emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils found in rubber moulding, trim and the paint system, which causes the plasticizers to dry out and oxidize, causing them to lose their flexibility.

The MSDS indicates that this product contains sodium hydroxide, which is highly alkaline the same ingredient used in engine degreasers to chemically ‘burn’ hydrocarbon oils and grease from engine surfaces (sodium hydroxide) it will severely stain aluminium, magnesium, etc. It will emulsify, breakdown and leach out oils naturally found in your paint, and also any oils you have applied in the way of a polish or glaze.

Generally you should avoid the use of household cleaning products for automotive detailing as they are formulated for an entirely different type of cleaning. [Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car] [Proctor and Gamble]



An extract from one of a series of in-depth, unbiased detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2009, all rights reserved.

I was told to use SimpleGreen for engine degreasing. Do you know if that is too harsh as well.?

A clay bar would remove everything too wouldn't it? Or does it leave some waxes or other things behind? I also never use anything but auto-specific soap when I wash mine.

It oxidizes aluminium on contact and damages clear from my experiences, it has a pH 9.3 and contains undiluted 2-butoxyethanol (Butyl Cellosolve) – see MSDS

Safe alternatives -

1. P21S Total Auto Wash a safe d-limonene -based (citrus) solvent.

2. Simple Greed- Pro HD conforms to both Boeing D6-17487P spec for general aircraft exterior cleaning and Pratt & Whitney PWA 36604 Rev C specifications for aircraft engine cleaning. It has been tested, thoroughly and has proven to be non-corrosive to aluminium.

I use simple green to remove wax, make sure to do it in the shade and wash after each section, I use to use dawn soap, but a degresser removes more than dawn soap.

Keep dawn away from your finish!!! Not good for the long haul.